February 9, 2019

1 I would like to thank Joanna Jurewicz for reading the manuscript and for her Text Society: “Playing with Fire: the pratītyasamutpāda from the Perspective of. The arguments are based on articles by Joanna Jurewicz, which unfortunately I can’t easily access right now, such as “Playing with fire: the. Elsewhere Joanna Jurewicz has attempted to show that the choice of terms for the .. „Playing with Fire: Pratītyasamutpāda from the perspective of Vedic.

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The purpose of this post was essentially to say that whether Gombrich’s theory is true or not, we’re better off not just clipping off the first four nidanas as some kind of antiquated irrelevancy. No commentator is infallible, right? Jati birth ; Erich Fauwallner argued long ago that the chain would logically have started with Tanha, in order to match up with the Four Noble Truths, but starting with the sense bases would work equally well.

Rupa is described as the four great elements and nama as various mental constituents. It continues the theme of looking at the way the Buddha drew on the traditions surrounding him, especially the Vedic tradition, of images and concepts with which to communicate his Insight.

Dhamma Wheel

Sankhara mental fabrications ; 3. Following a psychological interpretation, the primary cause of suffering is ignorance. But whereas the late Vedic tradition contained a notion of absolute consciousness, the Buddha claimed that there is only consciousness of something: Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of Jureaicz was hovering over the waters.

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First there is nothing, not even existence or non-existence. The Vedic religion was one in which fire played a central role.

The arguments are based playinf articles by Joanna Jurewicz, which unfortunately I can’t easily access right now, such as “Playing with fire: As for the rest of Gombrich’s speculations, they are based in a reincarnation interpretation of Dependent Origination rather than a psychological interpretation.

This is a brief overview of a more technical and thorough discussion by Professor Gombrich.

Dependent Origination and the Vedas – Dhamma Wheel

Gombrich has investigated other aspects of this fire metaphor. I think it makes sense. Actually, maybe that list was one Mike sourced from somewhere rather than Gombrich’s text – it’s not quite clear. I have been re-reading the notes from those lectures and wanted to highlight lecture seven which discussed the use of fire as a metaphor by the Buddha.

Later, with Dependent Origination, he taught the same subject in more detail. In fact, the good venerable arguably gives more time to expounding on these 4 nidanas than he does the rest of the sequence!

Jayarava’s Raves: Playing with Fire

It would not be so surprising considering how jurewucz Buddhist doctrine is a reworking of preexisting concepts. It could also go back six, seven, or eight links – nothing hangs on the difference. What Professor Gombrich has shown on more than one occasion is that the received tradition is confused on some points of doctrine or linguistics. Vedana feeling ; 8. Dependent Origination and the Vedas Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.

Who is online Users browsing this forum: God saw that the light was good, and he wit the light from the darkness. In particular where the Buddha used metaphors fife from the Vedic traditions, there have often be misunderstood by later Buddhists, even in some cases before the canon was written down.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. The Buddha, of course, was rejecting the idea of the atman and the denial of the atman makes the Vedic joann meaningless. What he means by “on fire” is that we our experience is burning with desire, with hatred, and with spiritual ignorance. There are many other suttas with quite different formulations, which wait for serious study, for example:.

In the Rig Veda: Following a psychological interpretation, the contradictions Gombrich is speculating joanns do not arise. This corresponds to ignorance. This also occured with nama-rupa, it being redefined as mind-matter rather than subject-object.

Doctrines must be tested against experience. There is evidence that fire worship goes back well beyond the entry of the Vedic speaking peoples into India. Genesis 1 The Beginning In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

The thing that struck me was that Gombrich and Ven N. Theravada Buddhism Web Directory. Since three of these four vedana, samkhara, and vinnana appear elsewhere in the chain under their usual names, this can hardly be correct. Maybe that’s only tangential to his argument though. The 12 links are one of those things with so many varied interpretations, the more context we have the better off we’ll be.